To Love or Not to Love
Tajwar Tashfin Awan
Sep 11 2009
I have been reduced to throw this out there because of what i have been witnessing in Lums for around a month now. What has to be kept in mind here is the fact that the following has nothing to do with “religion” or with anybody’s personal beliefs so please,refrain from sending any emotional “liberal” emails in reply to this.
Public Display of Affection.
I don’t know what is wrong with the new freshman,and some seniors too,they have a special and an uncontrolled need to seek physical consolation from the members of opposite sex many times in a day,in public,and in places where EVERYBODY can witness it.
Quoting few instances: (Readers’ Discretion is advised)
1) Standing at the main entrance,a girl stands on tip of her toes and kisses a boy good bye.
2) Lying in the lawn in front of the library,a boy rolls over the girl lying down beside him and remains in this posture.
3) Sitting in the academic block, a boy constantly rubs a girl’s leg,which are already half bare,with his hand inside her capries.
(These are just few instances,i have no reason to make these up.If nothing is done about it then i’ll take pictures of such things and attach them with my emails for everyone to see.)
Our (people who aren’t involved in this proud display of animal instincts in man) parents come to lums to pick us up and they have,i can gladly say,some sense of social (MIND YOU,i didn’t say religious) sentiment intact so they get offended. Our crediblity, and the credibility of our institution in our society is challenged when aunties spread rumors of most of the girls in lums not being virgin spread all over the city. Even my parents were reluctant to send me to lums just because of the “enviroment” here.
I openly challenge the fake hypocritical “tolerance” and “liberalism” being promoted on campus.If irreligious,uncultured (by this i mean those who don’t respect a culture’s values),unsocial have the need to be tolerated and have “sentiments” which need to be respected,then so do religious,cultured and social people.
This “tolerance” for each other has to be mutual.If we give some,then these people need to do it too.Why don’t they go back to using the DRs at night? Or behind the sports complex? or in the hockey fields?
I have never seen a religious person reading their holy book out in the open then why can’t they hide their anti social and irreligious practices too?!
I demand that a set of rules be laid out so that the “sentiments” of not-so-unclutured people are not hurt and so that we can go home and NOT for once,hide from our fathers our of sheer shame of what they saw.
I am hoping that the OSA will look into this so i have not cc-ed this email to the VC.
Perhaps it is best for the administration to take this opportunity to
reevaluate public behavior on campus and see if it conforms to university
policy; this way, something that many of us recognize to be a growing
problem can be addressed without there beings accusations of people’s
personal ethics being forced upon other members of the student community at
And Tajwar’s point regarding the reputation of LUMS students and graduates,
both male and female, particularly among the mothers of Lahore, Islamabad
and Karachi, having suffered greatly in recent times is quite true. Though
it is certainly not a concern of the university what people generally think
about LUMS students, their chastity or the ability to maintain marriages for
more than a few days, the university’s focus on its prestige must come with
a recognition of the need for it to be respected in all senses among the
wider Pakistani community. It does not fare well for the university’s public
image – one of it’s chief assents – when parents express intense discomfort
over the idea of sending their children to study at the university or.
Thank you so much Tajwar for speaking out.
The weirdest part is that WE, the ONLOOKERS, end up going red in the face and we try to hasten away from the ‘crime site’! As if its OUR fault that we caught them red-handed! Normal human reaction to being caught in such situations is to hide one’s face in shame,but in this situation,we,the “not-so-uncultured” need to look away and get OUR sentiments offended in the name of hypocritical liberalism!
This is a “STUDENT AFFAIR”, OSA stands for OFFICE OF THE STUDENT AFFAIRS. I hope those cc-ed in this email can see the OBVIOUS reaction this issue has raised and can respond and do something about it.
Otherwise I, too, am in. I WILL take pictures of what offends me and send it to everybody to see.
This is our fourth year in LUMS and the standard has been continuously deteriorating. The washing machines are gone, the fee is sky high, zambeel never works, the instructors…well…id rather not say. The contents of an entire toolbox can be found in the PDC food ( screws, hair, rubberbands etc etc) and with extra helping of cockroaches and lizard tails. And now the need to wear blinders while walking through the corridoors. The OSA seriously needs to take the student affairs seriously.
”(*These are just few instances,i have no reason to make these up.If
nothing is done about it then i’ll take pictures of such things and attach
them with my emails for everyone to see.)” ??????????*
Miss Tajwar and Nabiha??? hello…who are you to take these pictures and
attach them in your emails to see everyone???.. Grow up !! I am not against
this issue but please stop policing.
Lame.As always Mr Arif Jabbar you persist in your lameness. The emails CLEARLY state that if appropriate action is not taken against such incidents then we won’t just sit and do nothing,we will make sure that the line of “shame” and of social ethics is not crossed.
We know just how efficient the admin has been in dealing with student affairs.And you,an RC coordinator,couldn’t stop the washing machines from being taken away you have no right to tell us what we have to do or not.
Our faith in student representatives is nil.So please.stay out of it and mind your own bussiness.
IF you too are involved in any of activities which i find transgressing the sense of social ethic,i WILL take pictures.You have the freedom to act as you please completely inconsiderate of how others feel about it,so do i.
Yeah we should so something about this moral Decadence.
I have couple of suggestions for the admin:
1) Have a X-Large banner of “Big Brother is Watching You” at the
2) hire some people ( they should look ‘pious’) to sit in the open and read
holy book. This would probably change the image of LUMS.
3) Introduce “Department of Moral Police”. Eligibility criteria shoud be to
have minimum 85% in facebook quiz “How THURKEE are you”
4) Build cabins for privacy so that pious ppl dont get offended. ( Admin
should charge ppl for these cabins. And revenue generated should be spent on
“pious ppl reading holy book’ Project.
5) distribute ‘Abstinence rings/Chastity rings’ to promote(?) the importance
Thats all i can think of (at the moment) to instill *good values* among
Students are encouraged to mail their suggestions to the admin.
PS: Big Brother IS watching you.
Madiha Mohammed Najib
First of all i think its very interesting to see the Admins reaction to the
mails, like Maham said these things are secondary are main issues are never
addressed. However the admin decided to jump up at this issues and took ages
to address are previous more important issues like zambeel and the washing
mahcines( which btw has not been resolved as yet!)
Secondly the way the issue has been addressed is just despicable and
degrading. Comparing people to animals, sending their picture to national
geographic that is just plain rude! and i dont think anybody has the right
to degrade anyone in this manner.
Thirdly, as for the people who are displaying certain behaviors its their
choice in the end. Everybody has a set values which they think are right so
we can’t enforce our beliefs on them. They are old enough to know what is
right and what is wrong imposing our beliefs on them is likely to have
Muhammad Asif Subhani
First of All my greetings for Tajwar and her early supporters Nabiha, Mashal, Mazhar a Chinnoy and others including Student body with most of students of LUMS. You people are not alone I am with you. Inspite of the fact i never saw or met anyone of these persons including Mazhar sb so no one can blame me of their friends. I support you because you are right.
Tajwar: Sheeer dee Bachii Lagi hay Tu. Keep it up. Our Nation needs the girls like her who cant stay quiet when they see anything wrong. This shows that this nation is not dead. I salute Tajwar for her courage and pray from Almighty Allah to give such next generation to every parent in Pakistan. You have done a great job.
Mazhar sahab: Very Professional, responsible attitude by a great person. Believe me you will agree with me if you saw the administration of any Top public university. He felt the issue is important and responded accordingly.
Student Council: Very responsible and mature attitude towards students issues and addressing them at the highest level. I wish every university in Pakistan can get such a good Student body. Felt the issue at right time. Well done.
I didn’t check my e-mail after Thursday. On Sunday noon when i checked my e-mail. It was filled with more then 400 Messages and i was shocked how to deal with so much e-mail and how can i get e-mails which are actually for me. Due to curiosity i tried to figure out what the hell matter is, everyone is e-mailing but was unable to understand the matter so i started from Tajwar first e-mail and response of people on it.
I am 100% agree with Tajwar. PDA needs attention of administration.
For those of you whose say this is rare incident? I and couple of my other friends can tell you multiple events of PDA at different locations and timings. So I would not say its rare. It happens.
In a Muslim society, Muslim Country and 99% Muslim population. Our religion is strictly against such kind of acts. Our society should be governed by the Laws and morals defined by our religion. You can not detach them. If you detach them or you disagree then stop this hypocrisy and say yourself non muslim then do what ever you want like animals.
For those people who are against the Tajwar ideas because they think stopping people from such acts is wrong and interference to their freedom. I have a verse of Quran Surah 24 – Al Nur Ayat 19 for them. Stopping them is not Tajwar idea. Its duty of all muslims to stop them.
Inna allatheena yuhibboona an tasheeAAa alfahishatu fee allatheena amanoo lahum AAathabun aleemun fee alddunya waal-akhirati (24/19)
24:19 Verily, those who like that Fahishah should be circulated among those who believe, they will have a painful torment in this world and in the Hereafter. And Allah knows and you know not.
‘Let there be one community (umma) of you, calling to good, and commanding right and forbidding wrong; those are the prosperers’ (Q3:104).
‘You were the best community (umma) ever brought forth to men, commanding right and forbidding wrong’ (Q3:110).
‘And the believers, the men and the women, are friends one of the other; they command right, and forbid wrong’ (Q9:71)
– Thus all kinds of shameful acts are strictly forbidden. Those who are guilty of these acts are liable to severe punishment in an Islamic Society.
So this is not act of Tajwar’s enforcing his moral standards to others. It is our moral and religious duty to stop this vulgarity and I am very happy that Council and administration are rightly doing this. Rather if they are doing PDA then it is their enforcing of spreading Bad morals and culture to common persons at LUMS affecting institute prestige as well.
But as a matter of fact. We don’t have Islamic government so we can not stop people from doing such acts with the force of government. So what we people should do is to try to stop people from such acts through our voice which Tajwar and her supporters rightly did.
Now come to the point of Journalist view of Tajwar to highlight the crimes of those people through Media and raising voice against their shameful acts. On this point there is a lot of hue and cry. I ask those people who commit such shameful acts or try to defend those people who commit such acts. If they have done such a righteous job by doing PDA then why they are crying on Tajwar intention of getting their pictures and spreading them. Why they feel harassed? Obviously they don’t want these pictures to be shown to their parents or their future spouses. So I shall suggest them
“Do the right fear no man”.
What Journalists do in a free society. They highlight the social aspects and people decide who is right and wrong. So Tajwar will do journalism. No law of land stops her of doing this act neither any one of you can take the right of freedom of speech from her. This is right and democratic way of expressing his concern to society.
Even some intellectuals suggested to lower the gaze of the person seeing instead of stopping and condemning the culprits.
If someone feels it “Policing”.”Morality Police” “Narrow” “Hitler” “taliban” “Threatening” ”Attention Seeker” “Tap Nikali hay” “Imposition of personal moral standards” “In tolerance” “Jamiat fascism”, “Hate speech”. ”Lal majid ”, “Even zia islamization Hahahahahhahah”.
WHY should we tolerate vulgarity??? Why those Vulgar people don’t stop???
Every wrong name has given to her and her supporters by the people telling her to show intolerance. Sharam tum ko magar nahee aati! If Tajwar acts are anything to do with these titles then I shall say these titles are right….
Tajwar don’t worry. All these people are wrong. You are right. If 50 Blind people say that they saw this thing then they will be considered wrong and if one person with eyes says something about what he saw will be considered right.
One beautiful sher for you Tajwar.
Rahe-wafa main her soo kante dhoop ziyada saye Kam
Is rah pee chalne wale khush he howe pachtaye kam
I am happy there are many people who supported Tajwar.
There is no harm in going against the norms of the country but you
have blown Tajwar’s point out of proportion with all your
imagination.. Instead of getting all technical, try and comprehend the
larger picture she is trying to paint..
She has a valid concern and also if there is no harm in going against
the norm then it also doesn’t mean that going against the norm is
essentially beneficial. I can draw an imaginative picture for you
where by against the norms you can only make an irrational fool of
yourself but may be another time.
Thanks Tajwar for speaking out for a lot of people at LUMS.
Chaudhary Raza Hassan
i completely agree with Tajwar. Its really a difficult time for us when our parents come to LUMS because of the environment described by Tajwar. I am not involved but I remain uneasy as long as my parents are on campus. There should be some ethical boundary described by administration. During our o-week we were told during ethics and values lecture that such activities are discouraged. But the present scenario totally negates it.
Mazhar M. Chinoy
I am personally glad to read this discourse and following emails – this additionally empowers the OSA to move forward with what we have been assessing as one of the first items on our agenda. We have been working with the DC and some archival text, and have put together a clear cut policy over the PDA issue (something which did not exist publicly). The OSA is formally recommending this early next week for executive action and subsequent clear communication to all. Needless to say, non-compliance will lead to serious punishment. With help and support from our students and other members of the LUMS family, we will consistently see any PDA go the route of the dodo. The instances you have put together are non-representative of LUMS’ culture and cannot be allowed to carry on in such graphic manner. Thanks again.
Thank you Mazhar Sahib..your effort and concern is greatly appreciated.
Looking forward to the communication of the new policy,
I hope similar policies are being drafted and prepared for execution regarding more pressing issues of :
– Tuition fees rocketing through the roof
– Hostelites being asked to pay Rs. 10 per item of clothing for laundry
– Desperate shortage of hostel rooms (esp in the female dorms where even non lahoris are being put in triple occupancy)
– Zambeel crashing down at the time of course registeration time every quarter(now semester)
(This is list in not in the order of importance.)
However, as anyone with a deeper relationship with the campus or its student body can tell you, things aren’t so rosy at LUMS. In fact, the campus often seems divided between conservative, retro-revisionists and ultra-modern, party-hopping, next-generation liberals. Recently, what was previously a silent divide, became verbose on the LUMS campus mail system following a mass message sent out by a conservative student fed up with all the on-campus indecency she’s had to deal with.
Sent on the notable date of September 11 to the ‘General Discussion Group,’ this mail with the subject line ‘To love or not to love’ was a real ’social suicide bomb.’ The mail hit the inboxes of LUMS students and exploded into a fiery debate on public displays of affection (PDA) and sleek clothing versus religious values and cultural traditions. Since its inception, the thread has branched out into several sub-discussions, and subsequent replies from charged respondents range from traditionalists and Islamic ideologists, to ‘Class A’ revisionist hippies and devout atheists – guys, girls, freshmen, seniors, class-clowns, serious academicians alike have freely expressed themselves. So much so that it has caused many LUMS students to complain about the clogged inbox resulting from the same thread.
So what exactly is in this mail that’s so inspiring and polarising? Well, the mail starts with a confessional disclaimer where the claimant says that the goings on of the last month (possibly Ramadan?) have left her no choice but to state her disgust in an open email. She denies any religious connotations of her views and claims to just be dishing out societal critique based on cultural norms. Then the mail leads into the explosive sub-heading: Public Display of Affection.
The complainant starts by pointing at freshmen and ‘some seniors’ who have to ‘seek physical consolation from the members of opposite sex many times in a day’ on campus premises and in public sight. Then she proceeds – like one would in any good paper assignment – to back her claims with examples as evidence:
Quoting few instances: (Readers’ Discretion is advised)
1) Standing at the main entrance, a girl stands on tip of her toes and kisses a boy good bye.
2) Lying in the lawn in front of the library, a boy rolls over the girl lying down beside him and remains in this posture.
3) Sitting in the academic block, a boy constantly rubs a girl’s leg, which are already half bare, with his hand inside her capris.
After doubly bolstering her claim with photographic evidence, she turns to the conflict this kind of social interaction has with her parent’s generation, and the awkwardness some LUMS students have to face when their parents witness this debacle. She also notes the ‘credibility’ of LUMS students and the institution has been put on the line by ‘aunties who spread rumors that doubt the chastity of girls studying in LUMS.’ Citing a personal example, she says even her parents were hesitant in sending her to a place with such a questionable environment.
She goes on to refute the ‘fake hypocritical’ tolerance and liberalism put forth by ‘irreligious and uncultured people’ and fiercely argues for the rights of ‘religious, cultured, and social people.’ Interestingly, she even takes the ‘us versus them’ stance at a point signifying the extent of this expansive cultural rift within this posh college campus.
Ending her diatribe against cultural degradation, she advises policy measures to be taken up by the LUMS administration and draws out rules that outline an inter-gender code of conduct on campus, outlawing on-campus PDA and idealising an innocent return to the ‘LUMS culture’ of the olden day when the lewd and the salacious used to be hidden behind closed doors and bushes.
This e-rant has generated quite the response, opening the floodgates to a debate across campus touching on topics such as freedom, liberation, censorship, social values, multiculturalism, and the clash of civilisations, all laced with witty remarks, outlandish statements, and hyper-polar opinions. Evidently, a lot of concerned LUMS students had opinions on the matter bottled up for as long as they’ve been witnessing this campus spectacle.
Like any hotly debated topic among a group of LUMS students, the debate also takes a very theoretical twist based on the current readings assigned to a given LUMS student trying to come up with an analytical response. While people have cited Plato, Max Weber, Karl Marx, Rumi, and Muhammad Iqbal, others have pointed to the flaws inherent in western schools of thought and how their adoption represents the deterioration of eastern societies.
In one of the many replies morphing content and subject, a student addresses the newly admitted, still innocent freshmen who might be unsuspecting prey to dangerous theories and philosophies:
At LUMS, you will be bombarded with all sorts of atheistic and secular philosophies and ‘isms’. If you do not have the proper knowledge and conviction about Islam, you may fall prey to the untiring efforts of certain faculty members as well as your fellow students to misguide you.
Then the respondent conveniently takes the opportunity to steer this debate into an evangelical venture by diverting traffic to his Islamic website claimed to be providing a wealth of knowledge on religion.
‘I have sinned’ says a student in reply to the guiding light of the mail illuminated above, following with an open declaration of his disbelief:
I shave twice a week and my ‘painchas’ hang obstinately below my heels. I have a penchant for ties that resemble the Christian cross and my satanic dress code is causing me to stray far far away from the straight path. During the holy month, instead of attending Koranic recitals in the mosque, I was listening to the demonic sounds of Pink Floyd.
He follows by saying that he wasn’t like this until he ‘studied under the mischievous and deviant professors’ whose deviant theories made his moral-compass go all awry.
In an interesting turn of events, the Program Coordinator also issued a reply to the thread saying that they had been waiting for the issue to arise in public discourse so that they could take note of this and forward recommendations to the administration, prompting a possible laying down of rules that would prohibit such practices which are apparently not representative of the ‘LUMS culture.’
According to LUMS students, the administration hardly ever replies to the general comments thread. Students have apparently been complaining about malfunctioning campus utilities and the lack of certain essential facilities. A student in reply to the administration email expresses shock at the fact that this is one of the top priorities on the agenda of the LUMS administration.
With the LUMS administration now apparently bent on enforcing moral values, one wonders if an air-tight shariah-imposed zone is going to be the next ‘in-thing’ in LUMS. Perhaps the government will have to step in if public lashings are suddenly going to be enforceable on LUMS girls found with non-mehrams. And with people getting so high-headed and passionate about ‘LUMS culture,’ one is left wondering what exactly this culture is, and how you define a culture. LUMS students on the social-morality mailing thread are not far from the game, however, one LUMS student professes:
As Max Weber said, all social policy- tolerance or intolerance… from more ‘tolerant’ strands of ‘multi-culturalism’ to banning of PDAs to the banning of the Hijab (France: Liberté, égalité, fraternité)- always involves a preference of some values and rejection or relegation of others- even if pretensions are held otherwise.
So what are the guidelines that are supposed to define the parameters of this inter-campus cultural construct? Isn’t LUMS somewhat of a sample population of the country’s educated upper- and middle-class youth subsections? What is the morality of these vast spanning cultural-geographic subgroups influenced by a myriad of mass-media content ranging from cultural franchise to strict traditionalism? And, more importantly, whose job is it to determine that such and such should be the social-cultural ideals that should be respected by everyone?
LUMS must decide whether it is in fact a ‘liberal’ institution. Here, liberal does not mean the promotion of some strange brand of Bollywoodised consumer-culture. Rather, LUMS should ask whether it abides to a stance of universal cultural relativism, where all cultural behavior represents a social expression, promoting a tolerance and an intermingling of discourses to promote understanding through interaction. Or is the university in fact a ‘conservative’ institution, conservative not in the sense that it promotes the fashion of beards, rubber sandals, and high-cuffed trousers, but conservative in the sense that it wants to ‘conserve’ a certain cultural aesthetic, where it wants to shelter it from outside extravagances?
If there is actually an ‘us versus them’ situation brewing in LUMS, then this is probably true for outside of LUMS also. Perhaps instead of enforcing some crudely designed dictum to the word, the administration should take this as an opportunity to encourage debate and discussion on the topic, gather opinions of those involved or affected, and let the strength of ideas stand on their own weight like any academically responsible institution should. Perhaps a democratic path to this issue could help shed some light on the broader national, cultural and political dilemma as well. (Dawn blog)
Lahore-based Asif Akhtar is interested in critical social discourse as well as the expressive facets of reactive art. He is one of the schizophrenic narrators of a graphic novel and blogs at e_scape from nowher_e.
ANALYSIS: LUMS, diversity and pluralism —Rasul Bakhsh Rais
LUMS is not a perfect institution; nor does it claim to be one. But on all issues, from religious practices to social attitudes, it does reflect a reasonably mature degree of pluralism
In recent weeks, we have seen a spate of comments and editorials in some English dailies on the issue of public displays of affection at the Lahore University of Management Sciences (LUMS), where I have been working for the past seven years. Having lived on campus and been part of the LUMS community, which includes students, faculty and staff, I have some claim to knowing the place inside out, and feel obliged to comment on campus life at LUMS.
We can describe academic life at LUMS with two simple but very meaningful words — diversity and pluralism. LUMS is reflective of the diverse character of Pakistani society at large. There is hardly any region, ethnic and linguistic group, or religious stream that is not represented at the university. Also, LUMS, with its national and international reputation, has grown very rapidly over the last two decades in the number of academic programmes, students and faculty, including foreign faculty. This further places these values higher on the list of institutional priorities.
Naturally LUMS, and for that matter all academic institutions, have a particular academic culture and a campus life of their own. Patterns of academic life and culture become rooted in traditions that evolve over time and depend on the vision, values and internal processes of universities.
While diversity may be a universal characteristic of all universities of Pakistan, pluralism may not. We shouldn’t confuse diversity with pluralism, which is often done without understanding the latter in intellectual and sociological terms. Diversity essentially means people with different religious and ideological orientations living and working together.
What is important is that difference is something natural and is a universal characteristic of human societies. But that cannot be turned into ‘Us and Them’ or the basis for determining superiority or inferiority, as is the case in normal social situations. Every individual has a right to experience life the way he or she wants to, and each of us has a natural right to be what we want to be. This also extends to the realm of values, beliefs and the social choices we make as responsible and rational individuals.
This is the attitude that separates the modern world from the old one built on conformity, loyalty and deference to peers. Pakistan is a transitional society. As such, we are caught between the old world that pulls us towards conformity and the modern world that allows us freedom to think for ourselves and make independent choices.
The real difficulty however is how to cultivate pluralism in transitional society where the forces of the old order, with their social hierarchies and rigid beliefs and social attitudes, are strong. Tolerance of diversity and respect for an individual’s choice of values, though conditioned by the general norms of society, still leaves a big space for the individual to pursue an ideological line or make social choices away from the normal spectrum.
At a time when religious militancy surrounds us and identity issues dominate in a complex world contextualised by globalisation, individualism and liberty to pursue social goods or different ideological lines are obviously under threat in Pakistan. But one place where we can preserve a culture of pluralism and celebrate diversity is the university. We have lost a lot of social ground to extremist religious and ethnic groups in all public universities, where student bodies are controlled through sheer terror and fascist tactics.
I am glad to say that LUMS has escaped that fate. No student or faculty group has ever tried to capture LUMS and turn it to its little fiefdom, the fate unfortunately many public universities have met. The reason it continues to be a genuinely pluralistic place where all religious beliefs and social outlooks exist in mutual tolerance is strong roots in liberal values.
These values must not be taken to mean an absence of social norms, but more in the philosophical sense: the freedom of an individual student or a faculty member to pursue his or her own truth; and all truths and pursuit of religious beliefs and ideologies deserve equal respect.
The idea of a university is about being universal and holistic in exploring different ideas and judging them critically. Neither meaningful higher learning nor production of knowledge is possible without liberal values that place intellectual curiosity and cultivation of free, thinking individual quite high in the hierarchy.
Recent media comments have not captured the essence of diversity and pluralism in the debate among LUMS students on public displays of affection; rather, they have focused on ‘tension’ and ‘conflict’, which may imply an uneasy relationship among students with different cultural and religious orientations on campus. Debate and discussion, tolerance of opposite views and giving equal respect and social space to the self and the other are hallmarks of progressive thinking and forward looking societies.
LUMS, in this respect, is comparable with some of the best institutions in the world.
Academic life at LUMS is very different from popular misperceptions of it as a social island and a walled-in-life, standing in contrast to the more conservative society outside. Going by the optics of things may be deceptive and may take one’s attention away from the actual strengths of an academic institution like LUMS toward trivial or non-issues.
LUMS is truly a great institution of learning and a path-breaking experience in institution building not just for the reason that its graduates are accepted in some of the best universities around the world or they have better marketability, but also for its vision, values and pursuit of excellence.
But the work on institution building and further development never ends; it requires perpetual re-evaluation of where we are and how we can do better.
We are involved in an internal debate on how effectively we are pursuing our vision and how we can do better. LUMS is not a perfect institution; nor does it claim to be one. But on all issues, from religious practices to social attitudes, it does reflect a reasonably mature degree of pluralism.
LUMS should also solicit and welcome outside comments and evaluation from the society, media commentators and educationists. That would help us identify mistakes and things we may have overlooked. Universities grow with the rest of society and must have deep connections with the community outside. For this matter, we must receive with open hearts what others write about LUMS, but I wish it was about larger, more significant issues of academic culture, programmes and quality of instruction, and not just “pecks on the cheek”!
Dr Rasul Bakhsh Rais is author of Recovering the Frontier State: War, Ethnicity and State in Afghanistan (Oxford University Press, 2008) and a professor of Political Science at the Lahore University of Management Sciences. He can be reached at firstname.lastname@example.org (Source: Daily Times, 20 October 2009)
LUMS cited in the Christian Science Monitor for all the wrong reasons
China sets up patrol to check kissing students: Lesson for LUMS?
Comments from Old LUBP site:
My comments with due appologize with my own Brothers and respected Sisters.
Kia yay kanjeron aour kanjereeon ki academy hay kiya?
Please forgive me for my bad language…
3 OCTOBER 2009 23:53
If you are not having fun .. let others!
4 OCTOBER 2009 07:32
If we let them do “Whatever” they want then un jaisson kay na-jaiz bachay ko toh society nay hee sumbhalna hay na !!!
4 OCTOBER 2009 16:40
let them enjoy
but then dont leak ur sisters nude pics 😛
kinna persuades us
9 OCTOBER 2009 14:01
My comments are very few and hopefully brief
One that youtube video is something I saw several years ago and it is NOT in lums or by a LUMS student.
Secondly, Tajwar you taking pictures of people doing whatever they are doing (im not here to judge whether their acts are correct or not) makes you no better than them. You are violating their privacy as much as they are violating yours.
And thirdly, Tajwar if you had any concern about the repuation of LUMS you would not have made your personal feelings and your interpretation of what society should be like reach public newspapers for people to tarnish the name of a place I once called my home.
9 OCTOBER 2009 21:04
These photos and video are not of LUMS…..
9 OCTOBER 2009 23:44
Dear Asif Akhtar!!!
only two comments for you since I do not want to cry more at the inadequecy of your reasoning !
a) all of these pictures have been taken from a high school graduation party in delhi (LUMS building had a totally different design)
b) as per LUMS policy, dancing is NOT allowed at LUMS so the given video can not be made at LUMS!!
i would strongly suggest that if you want to pursue a career as a journalist in a good newspaper rather than some cheap evening newspaper, you should research well before writing anything and also you should avoind filtering and modifiying facts according to your own intrests!!
10 OCTOBER 2009 07:52
Asghar Hussain Kazi said…
If you wish to discuss this issue at length on this blog, if you really wish that this blog be read by people who would consider and regard its integrity, remove the pictures and videos. They are both insulting and offensive to the values which LUMS stands for and are not representatitve in any way of the LUMS culture.
10 OCTOBER 2009 08:33
Picture/Video are cute, please keep it that way. And bring more pictures like these. Girls are cute and boys too…………..
10 OCTOBER 2009 08:55
IJT, Karachi University and General Zia
With brainwashing on the one hand and erosion of academic freedom on the other, the campuses (once temples of learning and enlightenment) have been turned into centres of rowdyism and repositories of deadly weapon. Students belonging to various schools of religious thought, regional and ethnic groups, particularly the Islami Jamiat-e-Tulba (the student wing of Jamat-e-Islami) , have played havoc with educational institutions. Professors were another target of the victimization carried out in this period. Members of the IJT launched a concerted campaign against professors known for their liberal views. In Punjab University, particularly, many professors were forced to resign, others were sacked.
The situation was no different in the Quaid-e-Azam University, Islamabad, which had in the 70s attracted many brilliant Pakistanis who were teaching abroad. As the harassment became unbearable, most of these professors went back. To what extent fundamentalists blocked scientific knowledge can be assessed by one incident at the Karachi University, where a zoology lecturer was stopped from teaching Darwin’s Theory of Evolution. Similar incidents occurred frequently in the philosophy and the economics department. The situation has worsened wit the passage of time. During that period, a policy of appeasement towards the IJT made matter worse. Guns boomed at the Karachi University Campus for the first time in 1979 when, according to Imran Shirvanee, Raja Javed, a supporter of IJT, used a sten gun ‘to tackle the opposition.’ When the pen and free expression are throttled, the only means open to tackle opposition is a firearm. At that time, the IJT was the ruling party in Karachi University politics with Hussain Haqqani, Raja Javed was his close aide.
REF: The Web of Censorship by late. Zamir Niazi published by Oxford University Press.
10 OCTOBER 2009 09:25
Compare the photos!!!
Vandalism and Vandals of Jamat-e-Islami and IJT.
10 OCTOBER 2009 09:26
ive been here in lums for more than a year but ive never seen these places in lums….
u people know nothing and just blame
tum jese logon ne hi Pakistan ko badnaam kia hua hai
this video is available on youtube from some american university so far i remember and about the pix… that is of sure they are not from lums cause lums has its own way the buildings are designed and no one is built that way
10 OCTOBER 2009 10:22
The very first thing….the picture above is not that of lums…its of some event in India which in Pakistan is tried to be attached to Lums. Second thing watch your language guys..don’t you “parents” tell you what is a suitable language and what not. Can’t say more to you guys. Just by seeing some fake pics you are using “Kia yay kanjeron aour kanjereeon ki academy hay kiya?”
10 OCTOBER 2009 16:04
This place in the pictures and the video are not LUMS…this is so sad to see the media being incorrectly used to spread such wrong rumours…I am a LUMS student, it is true that these emails did circulate in LUMS. However, these pictures and the video are obviously NOT of LUMS. The LUMS buildings have a TOTALLY different architecture. Nor have I seen the people in these pics and video EVER in my two years at LUMS. People shud atleast verify things before posting them. Spreading wrong words that are lies is not only morally and ethically wrong, but it is also against the teaching of our religion Islam. As for the woman who started this email thread in LUMS, most Luminites think she is an exaggerating attention-seeker who is never happy about anything, and many of them have never noted any such things going on in LUMS campus.
10 OCTOBER 2009 16:27
Sigh. Will people not leave us alone.
10 OCTOBER 2009 16:58
THE PICTURE AND THE VIDEO IS NOT OF LUMS….THE PICTURE IS OF SOME COLLEGE IN DELHI..and THE VIDEO DOESNT BELONGS TO LUMS EITHER….VERIFY THE SOURCES FIRST OF ALL BEFORE POSTING THEM….
10 OCTOBER 2009 17:43
This shit is not from LUMS, first of all..this is an open propaganda to damage and bring down LUMS reputation…One should verify the source first then…this is all bull shit just to defame LUMS…
for God sake have some sense…!!!
10 OCTOBER 2009 19:37
As mentioned and reiterated above, the pics and video are NOT i repeat, NOT from LUMS. The mere fact that the author of this article had the gall to propound false evidence says much for the credibility of his statements.
If you want people to listen to you and believe what you say, write something genuinely informative instead of some sensationalist bull decorated with random pictures and youtube videos.
This is not how you show your concern for society. This is simply propaganda spewed out to defame LUMS. Go get a real job and waste your time somewhere else!
10 OCTOBER 2009 22:30
Muhammad Usama said…
I dont see this sort of background ever in LUMS this is bull shit. These pictures are not from LUMS. There is no such place/background in LUMS where these Girls & Boy are standing & this VIDEO is also not from LUMS because there is no evidence prooving that this video is shooted in LUMS… If challange u that u have no authentic prooves showing that these are from LUMS.If u have then show them also….
11 OCTOBER 2009 06:37
Shahzad Ahmed said…
This is ridiculous. Trying to pile dirt on the reputation of LUMS and harming its prestige. Anyone who is even remotely familiar to LUMS knows that the picture/ video have not been shot in LUMS (just take a look at the background) nor do they contain Luminites.
Blindly hurling accusations and pointing fingers on the basis of non-credible sources is becoming somewhat a habit of our nation. Before you slander the reputation of the leading institute of education I would ask you to cast away your ignorance for one moment and actually try to verify your claims. Only then will you realise that this whole article is mere ludacris
11 OCTOBER 2009 18:24
well we surely know how credible dawn or its journalists really are,,,,And how unprofessional Asif Akhtar really is,,, even if he didnt research at all before uploading the videos and pics,,,he could have used his common sense,,,wat a shame!!!
11 OCTOBER 2009 19:40
Credible rumours are miss.Tajwar lost her virginity while in her second year and got dumped by her boyfriend in her third year.
She later on started becoming radicalised and by her last year decided to become Miss Taliban.
15 OCTOBER 2009 06:42
Ali Irtiza said…
I, for one, shall cast my vote in favor of what Ms. Tajwar has said, however, before winning my vote, she’ll have to pen down a similar blog castigating those who roam not only around lums, but from Khyber to Gwadar in their meter-long beards, or in case of women, cloaked head to toe in various colors of coffins, though they claim life. The Public Display of Religion.
I think in this case, Ms. Tajwar first needs to know what culture means; and if the knowledgeable-self by any chance does know, then we the not-so-learned need to have the privilege of knowing it through her as well.
If Ms. Tajwar knows what culture means, then let me pose another question: Your Excellency, are you sure that there exists something as ‘Pakistani Culture’ out there? What do u refer to as our culture? The Indian legacy? The Arab heirloom? The Persian vestiges? The Central Asian remains? Or this welter of modernism at your banks that you are so afraid of? What is your culture?
I wish ours was a boiling pot where a proper and refined amalgamation of these cultures could have been achieved. However, mine is a mere wish. This indeed is the dilemma of almost all post-colonial societies, especially those that lack any indigenous past to ascribe to.
Let me tell you what you are trying to stop, is the inevitable. Call it the callous course of history, or accuse the intrinsically evil human instincts (if so). This is bound to happen. Take lessons from Iran, or for that matter even the West. If not more, at least 600 years of European History shall teach you much to understand things better.
In order to understand the present, and forecast the future, you need to read and comprehend history first. History – I said, not a single history book. Not a tunnel-vision discourse of history.
I can do nothing but laugh at the poor souls who I see being crushed and squashed by the ‘indecency’, ‘moral decadence’ and ‘degeneration’ of the society. I pity them. For they are trying to fight the historical process ought to happen. The best you can do is to build a dam. And doing so (just as you have been doing) through power, through myths, through religious fallacies, or through manipulation of the collective common sense. But remember, you cannot fight change. Change that might well be for the good or even the bad, which themselves are again very much subjective concepts.
Ours is a nation (wrong word) of ignorance. A child of darkness. Now consider a 180 million children who’ve been raised with blind-folds and fed with rotten/expired food. This is our case.
Such children, when they encounter some light, very little of it, for the first time, either close their eyes even tighter, or get blinded by light – something they aren’t accustomed to. We have ample of examples of such obscurantists, as well as such wannabes.
Dear Ms. Tajwar, do not expect a cactus plant to grow roses. What you experience today is what you (your ilk) had sown for decades. Now bear with it.
Syed Ali Irtiza
18 OCTOBER 2009 11:09
It’s tragic indeed that an otherwise educated segment of society is fast falling into the trap of an essentially evil, dangerously detrimental puritanical belief. It’s clearly because the conservative forces of this religion (read reactionaries) have taken a great lesson for the deadly mistakes the Church had committed. The mistakes brought about the Renaissance. The pomp and revenue which the Church lost in the result of this slightly unexpected this cultural, scientific and economic revival forced the puritans and moralists to be wary. What followed was their conscientious efforts to suppress any such revivalism through falsification, and when need be, through force. Darul ulum Deoband is the most glaring example of it. How they radicalized the vulnerable section of society makes a special mention in the annals of history. Paradoxically, this ultra-conservative brand of Islam witnessed its more splendid revival with the Saudi petro-dollar in 80’s and 90’s. It has not stopped here either. IT continues to ‘plague’ the society. Case in point is the role of modern vigilante that miss Tajwar Afshin is playing here. What doesn’t surprise me is another contradictory element of the ongoing debate: puissant arguements in favor of enforcing this ban on “public affection”. Those who endorse the view of Miss Afshin clearly outdo the ones presenting an altogether different take on this issue. This, like I said earlier, is a dangerous trend of radicalization of educated class. Those studying in LUMS should, in no way, start moral policing. Theirs has to be one aim: becoming a social scientist, engineer or banker or businessman. IF they can’t do that, they are certainly free to carry sticks like the LAL MASJID vigilantes and implement Sharia; at least in their campus.
18 OCTOBER 2009 12:06
I am a LUMS Alumni from the class of 2006 – and i am absolutely horrified, and incredibly disappointed that this debate even EXISTS in a university of such caliber as LUMS.
1) You are studying at an internationally recognized liberal arts university – and you made the choice to study here – if you feel that you require more of a conservative university environment for your personal progression – do not attempt to repress the masses and instead enroll at a university that holds the cultural mindset that you have.
2) You say:
“if appropriate action is not taken against such incidents then we won’t just sit and do nothing,we will make sure that the line of “shame” and of social ethics is not crossed”
Public Space vs Personal Space. The LUMS campus environment is a public space and is not subject to your personal definitions of “personal ethics” nor is it subject to the cultural definitions imposed by pakistani society. What ever culture exists is the STUDENTS culture uninhibited by enforced rules and regulations.
3) Personal Beliefs and their Enforcement on Society. Religion is an incredibly personal affair – and i will not even bring it into this discussion – nonetheless if you have certain beliefs – imposing those beliefs on others by FORCE is at the HEART of the religious extremism debate. No man nor woman can go into your heart and judge what you believe – so do not judge others, pursue your beliefs to the best of your ability BUT LEAVE OTHERS TO THEIR OWN BELIEFS.
This post makes me sad mainly because it is this imposition of an individuals value judgments on other people whether they like it or not. LUMS was never made to be such a place – lums was supposed to be a place where freedom of mind, body and soul could come together and create an environment where people of many different beliefs, faiths, and opinions can come together to discuss in an academic environment – and where no persons beliefs are called into question.
If you would like to be in a place that does not foster these values – then truly i dont believe that lums is for you.
I hope that the student body stands against this tragic state of direct violation of your freedoms – i have graduated but it is your freedom on the line.
18 OCTOBER 2009 16:08
What I guess i dont understand the most is WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM? And why do you feel that your “sensitivities” should be taken into account by the entire student body?
And really? Documenting and blasting it for everyone to see? (i wonder what islam has to say about that – you publicizing the business of others without their knowledge) You as an individual have no right to police the student body, you as an individual have no right to determine what is appropriate and what isnt. Hell your blog talks about religious extremism? You and your attitude towards others is the building blocks that religious extremism is built on.
18 OCTOBER 2009 16:23
Nasir Iqbal said…
I am horrified that the debate even exists. Whatever happens between consenting adults is their business alone. The university must not and has no basis to intervene. As for the moral police-grow up -do you still believe storks bring babies in Pakistan!
19 OCTOBER 2009 18:09
I wrote this blog originally for the dawn blog.. and happened to run into this re-posting via a Google search.. To all those complaining about the pictures and the videos, the original post had none of that and have been added to “sensationalize” the story as some of the commentators have aptly noted.
The people who run this letsbuildpakistan blog should be more responsible if they actually want to “build” pakistan. News channels etc. already have enough sensationalism going on.. my original post was intended as a way to spark a healthy debate which it has in some respects. Just wanted to clarify that the “other” content is none of my doing..
Peace to all.
19 OCTOBER 2009 22:40
Miss Tajwar and her moral policing band.
If you dont like something dont stand there and take pics. ALso, I am a LUMs alumni, by any standard i was considered v convential and conservative, and w witnessed PDAs as well. But it did not bother me. Cause unlike you and your band of brother/moral sisters or whtever, I donot have repressed psycho-sexual issues. If somebody’s hands are in someone’s capris…isint it easier to walk away, rather than stand there on ooogle them….you have some serious issues. all i can say is you are an over-controlling freak. I feel sorry for a husband (cz u will never have a bf) you will have, and poor kids that you will reproduce. You are one disgusting woman.
20 OCTOBER 2009 03:22
Black Scorpion said…
Good shot tajwar! It truely captures the spirit of the moment. the colors and the framing is also very nice. 😀
20 OCTOBER 2009 05:33
I , too, am an Alumini of a well reputable university like vassag0 and other friends.
I am neither a moralist nor do i am a social worker for teaching you people the underlying principles of society on which it is based.
I dont have slightest of idea that how come you people are so much liberal in your so collad modarate ideas about PDA. Tajwar Tashfin is right in her point that no one has the right to spoil any ones freedom, if the person showing public display of affection has the right to do so then Tajwar should also be given freedom by providing those PDAs a separate place where they can show what ever affection they want to show in a much better and realxed manner .
It is very much incendiary for a normal person to digest such a flagrant public display of affection from mentally people .
The advocates of the liberty in comments above mine should keep in mind that they would not bear being onlookers once one of their own female family members is being given a public display of affection in front of them by a guy or may be the bus driver of the LUMS university.
Freedom For All.
20 OCTOBER 2009 05:43
Abdul Nishapuri said…
asif: an explanatory note has been added to the bottom of your blog.
20 OCTOBER 2009 09:07
no actually i dont have a problem with my sis’s bf giving her a peck on her cheek…for me its a human expression of love and affection.
what i dont understand is that why we end up bringing sisters and mothers as a final pathetic argument….”ghairat” kai muqbarai per na-uqlee or jahalat kai kalay phool churha ker is koom nai pata naheen kis rah per jana hai.
i thinmk what @ali irtaza said….and @idrees said….is too much for intellectual and moral dwarfs like u to understand and fathom
which prestigious univ are u talking abt? UET? Punjab Univ? Khyber Univ? Mardan Univ? what have these univ done in last 50 yrs in the field of science in technology. what is H-index of these universities?….oh of course…jamat-islamee is busy monitoring in these universities that girls dont address boys….thats all we care abt…..i think what is happening in pakistan today is exactly wht we desrve…cz if u have a “right” to police others…than talabaan has the right to blow our children in schools cz we dont follow their version of islam…bravo….well said….u ppl will never understand what a heavy price u shld be ready to pay for intellectual stagnation, and need to “CONTROL” others lives…we have to control “moral” behaviors of other….
LOL…God gave humans freewill….he said “chose” and i will decide….but ppl like NEO want to be more than GOD….they will not letus CHOSE…and they want to decide before GOD…..what a pity….
long live jahalat and talabaneeit in Pakistan..bravo bravo bravo…..
21 OCTOBER 2009 23:23
In this video two ppl were found in a house, seems this was staged or it can be real
I am posting it here specially for Tajwar and her “civilized” followers….chnioi, Asif subhani, neo etc etc….
This is what these people will condone, and probably do…. Long live jahalat….and interfernce in personal affairs….Tajwar….i see you in these stupid women….THATS YOU…this video is dedicated to u and yr stupid band of moral brothers
22 OCTOBER 2009 05:45
ملا نے سکھایا اک سیانی کو سبق
کسی زن کے قریب آے نہ کوئی نر
ہے اک یہ ہی رب کا امر
اسی پر تو بس کرنا فکر
اسی پر دین ہے قائم
اسی سے ہے روسّں قبر
اسی سے بنیں قومیں امر
کسی زن کے قریب آے نہ کوئی نر
ہے فرنگی کا مکر Freewill
دخل ذاتیات ہے رب کا امر
بازارمیں بہن کو جوتے لگا کر سوچتا پسر
سوات کا واقعہ ہے قوموں کا فخر
لگائیں زنا بالجبر پراندھی بچی کو کوڑے اگر
تو پھر بھی نہ کرے کوئی فکر
کہ عقل کا استعمال ہے گناہ کبر
یہ قیمتی ہے صرف تو اسے نہ کر
بس ھاتھ میں تو اپنے اب پکڑ
اک موٹا سا ڈنڈا ذرا
اور جا بجا گھنٹی ہر اک کہ گھر
کھل کہ تانک جھانک تو کیا کر
کہ کسی زن کے قریب آے نہ کوئی نر
ہے یہ ہی اک میرے رب کا امر
جو تیرا ہمسایہ گیا بھوک سی مر
کیوں تجھے ھوتی ہے فکر
گر گیا راہ پر جو کسی کا پدر
تو کیوں کر کرے کوئی فکر
بیاہ دے قرآن سے بیٹی اگر
نہ تو پھر بھی کوئی کرے ذکر
چھین لیا کسی نے کسی کا در
بس پھر بھی نہ تو ہو مضطر
یہ سب معاملات کہ تو ہو غافل ذرا
کہ آ سکے زن کہ قریب یہ مردود نر
جھوٹ چوری رشوت سب پر تو کرنا صبر
بس کسی ناری کہ قریب ایے نہ نر
کہ اسی سے بنی قومیں امر
سائنس کی کبھی نہ تو کرنا فکر
معاشیات کا بھی نہ کوئی کرے ذکر
اور فنون لطیفہ ہے کیا مکر
کس نے کہا ہے کہ یہ ہے کوئی ہنر
اورانسانیت میں ہے نہیں کوئی ثمر
جب آ گیا ناری کہ قریب کوئی نر
(By Malia RH, LUMS ALUM)
24 OCTOBER 2009 19:04
First of all congratulations, you are probably enjoying many visits on this blog (everybody just loves conspiracy).
Second of all, my personal opinion about this issue and article is that its very immature. you say that aunties circulate rumors about LUMS, so who is a hypocrite here, the aunties that don’t have anything better to do or the people who simply don’t give a damn about that. Also we believe in (at-least I) democracy, and in democracy evolution is a common phenomenon, even with culture, whatever you have stated just seems to be a desperate attempt to save what you believe in.
Now what is the problem? the problem is that people like you do not get the concept of tolerance, nobody said that you shouldn’t recite holy quran in the open (even if someone did say that he/she is completely ignorant, to say the least). Tolerance means accepting diversity of people and their thoughts, whatever actions they pursue due to their attitudes, if they do not harm the society in any meaningful way, then they are subjects of tolerance (please don’t say that you get emotionally offended just by looking at it, that just points towards your insecurity). So the problem with everyone and our society is that we can not tolerate and we like to impose whatever we think as right, this is the real horror of a mind(as someone stated here the Big Brother Phenomenon, life in fear), which we have seen in-acted upon by many of our leaders (most of them) and the result, Pakistan still stands where it was. I think i need not say more, but only if we remain this way, then it wouldn’t be of a shock to me that Pakistan fell. Because a nation is never build upon hypocrisy, rather it is destructed upon so.
25 OCTOBER 2009 08:53
Dude i don’t know who you are.. and what’s your purpose here to show this on the web.. but i’ll agree with most of the people above that ITS NOT LUMS.. even though i am not a lums student. but i have been to Lums on a number of occasions. Its not like some part of amsterdam like you describe it here. Its a normal place. I never saw any inappropriate behavior in public. i can even say that you’d find Karachi University worst than lums (if you think it is an indecent place in the first place). and finally.. even i know that the picture and the video is not of any lums student. in picture.. in the background you can see a white building.. and i can assure you that there is NO WHITE BUILDING in the entire campus or near it!!!!!… you basically dude you are delusional
25 OCTOBER 2009 19:12
Whoever wrote this stuff is a big time looser who pokes his nose in other people affairs…
People like you are just jealous cause you guys don’t have anyone to give yourselves proper attention…
Anyways as far as LUMS is concerned…
I’ve never seen these kinda inappropriate scenes there plus these pictures are so not of LUMS…
Looser if you can’t get any attention please don’t interfere and poke your nose into happy people lives…
Live and Let live…
Everyone has to answer for himself so be good!
26 OCTOBER 2009 17:32
When I heard about this controversy I was shocked and saddened. But when I read Tajwar’s little letter with her warning of reader discretion I am just angry. THESE are the PDAs she was so scandalized by? A chaste peck goodbye? A little petting? Basic Physical contact? I seriously thought she had witnessed some R rated action on the campus but this isn’t even PG-13. This is how human beings connect with each other.
If you are offended by people holding hands what’s next? Sitting next to each other? Smiling? There is no reason for you to be intimate be with another person if thats what your faith tell you to do but does you faith tell you to make others feel small dirty and cheap? Well, it didn’t work. Enjoy your voyeuristic tendencies.
26 OCTOBER 2009 18:53
Tajwar ur act only describes “y not me”, u r jealous of the kissing- and the kissed-girl.
31 OCTOBER 2009 01:25
Ali Raza said…
This is definitely Institute of Business Administration’s (IBA)conspiracy to bring down the name of LUMS. And evidence also suggests that The IBA is a ‘RAWian’ organisation with its evil roots in Indian RAW headquarters. They want LUMS to become the breeding ground for fundamentalists where courses such as ‘bomb making 101’ are introduced. I am with Mr. Zaid Hamid, I vehemently support his anti-zionist views and I will not allow this to happen. Never. Ever.
1 NOVEMBER 2009 18:33
Wahhabi Backward Mullah said…
People who are condemning the Original Poster against taking pics of such amazing moments of sex-gymnastics are employing an argument that is based on delusions. To summarize, the argument is that the original poster (OP), tajwar in this case, is breaching the privacy of others. Hey, they are not called PUBLIC displays of affection for no other reason except that they are done in the public? If they are being done in the public, anyone HAS the right to take pictures or make videos. Its a public domain and the concept of privacy in a public domains hold little, if any, ground. Yes, you can call it policing or natural sight seeing. The onlookers have every right to record ANY public display of affection or be it hatred. Just like a public onlooker has the right to record a terrorist activity, this activity does not offer any privileged rights to the love-birds involved in an affectionate act. If they are enjoying it, let the viewers enjoy too.
2 NOVEMBER 2009 21:02